I Type, You Type, We All Type for Stereotypes
This survey was compiled by TNG founder Zack.
Gay stereotypes are a funny thing. You may swear you don't like Madonna until you're blue in the face, but one day "Into The Groove" comes on your car radio and you don't change the channel. Then you get a speeding ticket for going 90 on a residential street and are hauled off to jail because you screamed "Tonight I wanna dance with someone else" in the cop's face. You're love of Madonna should have nothing to do with your sexuality, but someone back in the day decided the two things are inextricable and we're all been paying for it ever since. Figuring that everyone has had some moment of just going about their business and suddenly turned into a gay caricature, this week's staff survey question is as follows:
Has there ever been a time when you realized you were living up to some gay stereotype, whether it be positive or negative? How did you feel about this?
All answers are below the fold.
1. Zack, Co-founder and primary contributor:
My two best friends in college were straight guys. Together, we liked to joke that the three of us put off a very "bisexual vibe." I was a big homo, one of us was a very preppy, domestically inclined straight guy who fit most gay stereotypes and the third was bearish, bearded guy's guy. However, if we spent enough time talking to each other the conversation frequently turned to pants and hair products. Even with two straight guys I felt embarrassed to be heard talking about this stuff because it seemed so "gay." They were embarrassed too. That's why we didn't usually have these discussions in public.
2. Michael, Co-founder and primary contributor:
I was at Target with my sister-in-law a few years ago, shopping for housewares after recently moving back to the East Coast. I'd gotten myself lost in the bedding section and spotted an item I considered buying but needed some feedback on. I tracked down my sister-in-law and asked her, "Do I need a dust ruffle?" I'd never before felt so "gay" in my life.
3. Allison, Staff Contributor:
My Sophomore year of high school I co-founded an after-school feminist-activity group called "Eye-to-Eye." Once a week we would talk about feminist writings/themes. However, almost all of the conversations somehow segued into talks about eating disorders, who we thought might have an eating disorder and "how women are beautiful inside and out." After our weekly meetings, I would go coach a junior field hockey team at a local middle school. My girlfriend tells me that this part of my past was "a big ball of gay." I, however, didn't think anything of it.
4. Philip, Staff Historian:
At some point along the way I realized I was living up a huge gay stereotype, one I've had to struggle with pretty hard over the years: I'm attracted enough to some guys that I want to have sex with them. I didn't know what to do at first, where to turn to deal with being such a stereotypical gay man, so I decided not to worry about it. I can't say that being attracted to guys and wanting to have sex with some of them has been totally smooth sailing, but overall it has brought me quite a number of joyful moments and some friendships, affection, and love that I'm not going to trade in.
5. Rocky, Music Editor:
I'm pretty stereotypically gay in a lot of ways everyday. For instance, I put more than a little thought into my outfits. Every time I catch "West Wide Story" on TV I watch until the end and cry and cry and cry. And sing. Mariah Carey makes me squeal with delight. But at the same time, I'm an avid baseball and football fan, I'm more jealous of Andrew's truck than you could ever know and I've even been known to hook up with the occasional girl. So how do I feel about that? Well, I guess I don't really think about it much because I'm just doing what comes naturally. I suppose the answer to that question is contingent upon how you feel about yourself and how willing you are to let someone else's perspective cloud your view of yourself. I've been of the mindset for some time now that, most of the time, I'm pretty alright. I'm pretty sure that's what matters so... it's cool.
[see above image]
7. Corey, Managing Editor and Staff Contributor:
I decided to come out when I realized that I was obsessed with High School Musical and Zack Efron. So, yeah.
7a. Corey, Managing Editor and Staff Contributor:
OMFG, I JUST SPELLED HIS NAME WRONG, WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK. There may be hope for me yet?
8. Amelie, Events Planner and publicist:
I played women's rugby.
Editorial Staff:
9. Margaret, Editorial Assistant and Business Development:
I sometimes have trouble discerning that something's stereotypically lesbian — I know enough people who blur the lines to be able to make a clear cut list of "lesbian" stereotypes and "straight white girl" stereotypes.
In fact, when I cut my hair off this time it didn't reeeeally occur to me how prevalent lesbians having short hair is until I was playing around and realized, "Oh. I can't wear my hair like that— then I'll look like so-and-so. And when it grows a bit and I pull it up like this, I'll look like this woman's girlfriend." So much for my cute haircut being all individual...
But really, is there a problem with calling something a stereotype and owning that stereotype if it's a prevalent trait?
10. Andrew, Editorial Assistant:
In 2004, I picked up a brand new Ford F-150 SuperCrew pickup truck. Silver. It was the truck of trucks and I wanted it for years. I was thrilled to finally get it and on the long drive home from the dealership, I put in my "Mamma Mia" soundtrack and sang every track at the top of my lungs. It was a whole crazy mishmash of stereotypes going on, some gay, some midwestern, some white, but for me, it was pure bliss. It was me being me and any time I can say that, I'm truly happy.
13 comments:
I'm a gay man who is just coming out at the age of 29, and I was thinking about this same thing. If I've been intentionally suppressing mannerisms and behaviors that might be "too gay" for the past 10 years, and now I'm going to stop suppressing them, am I going to gravitate more toward a stereotype?
Whatever happens, ChelseaNoob, congratulations! I know a number of older gay men who first came out in their late 20s (or sometimes even older), and while it's a tremendously difficult road, they're all happy they did and they're all pretty well-adjusted. So it's possible to do and rewarding, too. Good luck!
Isn't the definition of "stereotype" contingent on choice? I think Andrew hit the nail on the head when he said, "It was me being me and any time I can say that, I'm truly happy."
I know a guy who is a walking talking gay cliche, but the problem is that he doesn't know it. He thinks he is making choices, but his world view is limited to gay friends, gay books, gay bars, and gayborhoods. He has no other frame of reference.
So, to paraphrase Miranda Priestly, he thinks he is making a choice when it was already made for him by other people.
The idea that we are "paying" for something or we become a "caricature," is all based on what other people think. Caring about your appearance isn't a gay stereotype. Limiting yourself to what all the cute, popular boys at the bars are wearing could be considered stereotypical.
Growing up my Mom used to tell me, "No matter what you do, people are going to talk about you. So make your choices wisely, and then have the confidence to stand by them."
I do what I do because it makes me happy, even if it's something that would be considered decidedly gay (Project Runway, hauling my friends to drag shows, relationships and sex with men) or decidedly straight (hockey, beer-snobbery, punk shows, hanging out in sexuality-neutral bars and talking shit with my straight male friends). I am who I am, so I don't really get too bothered by it.
Good question. I find the comments/answers revealing. It is remarkable many people think being gay is the foundation of their identity and that gay behavior (or stereotype) is automatically reverse-gendered. What about the non-gendered stereotypes like "perfect" syndrome, hyper-grooming, defensiveness, etc?
Actually it isn't sexual orientation that produces stereotype and determines behavior but oppression based on sexual orientation. In other words stereotypes (like the bigotry that produces them) are learned.
The way I see it if you're "living up to some gay stereotype" you have made a choice to do so. A choice not about your identity but how to assimilate and react to the oppression that produced and imposed the stereotype in the first place. In other words it is stereotypical to "live up to some gay stereotype".
Hang on, I thought of one -
When I was in college a few years ago I got a phone call from one of my female friends back home. I answered the phone with a "Hey girl!" My roomate at the time, a very easy going English major, nearly fell off his bed laughing over how incredibly gay it sounded and how atypical it was for me. It was kind of embarrassing.
I still answer the phone like that when she calls...
Gandhi once told W. E. B. DuBois (not Blanche DuBois, Blanche!) that there is no shame in being a slave, there is only shame in owning a slave. Analogously, there's nothing wrong with fitting a stereotype: what's wrong is thinking in terms of stereotypes and applying them to other people.
ChelseaNoob, it's common (though not universal) for gay men coming out at any age to try on different styles, mannerisms, identities. One reason for this might be that, as you say, they've been repressing these traits for years and can finally let them out. Another might be that they were afraid of these traits for years, and now have permission to try them. But after a while they let go of the behavior that isn't really them. (Just as new Christians will babble about how wonderful Jesus is, and how they were blind but now they see, and so on until you want to strangle them; but after awhile they get over it, and themselves.) It sounds to me as if you're afraid that if you listen to just one Judy Garland song, you'll never listen to anything else. Relax, cheri. Eventually you'll move on to Barbra or Bette, and then to Madonna and Britney. And then maybe Callas and Schwarzkopf, or even Anthony and the Johnsons.
I disagree strongly with Ben64. All behavior is learned, not just the stereotypical kind. Stereotypes are selected from the repertoires of some people. Some people fit those stereotypes, more or less. What is bad is saying or thinking something like, "Aren't all Xes Y?" No; some Xes are Y, others are Z, some are Y and Z.
Also bad is assuming that there is something wrong with Y. If all gay people did 'fit the stereotype,' (and in fact there are many stereotypes, often in conflict with each other) we would still be human beings entitled to human rights. It really pisses me off that so many gay people evidently agree that doing drag, sashaying, crossing one's knees while seated, having a shrine to Britney in one's home, etc. really are despicable and must be expunged or we don't deserve respect from the likes of Rick Warren. The real question is, why are you seeking respect from bigots?
re: The Promiscuous Reader
"Stereotypes are selected from the repertoires of some people."
What does that mean?
"The real question is, why are you seeking respect from bigots?"
Correct. As I wrote above (paragraph 3) stereotypes are an accommodation of bigotry.
"I disagree strongly with Ben64. All behavior is learned, not just the stereotypical kind. "
Hmmm. Are you sure we're disagreeing? I think some behavior is learned, some is biologically based. Here is what I actually wrote:
"...stereotypes (like the bigotry that produces them) are learned."
Ben64: "Stereotypes are selected from the repertoires of some people."
What does that mean?
I should have said 'constructed' rather than 'selected.' What I meant was that the stereotyper selects traits and behaviors in individuals he wants to stereotype, with no interest in the complexity of those individuals. He sees an "effeminate" gay man, a "butch" lesbian, and makes assumptions about who they are and what they think and how they see themselves -- for example, that they "think being gay is the foundation of their identity."
As I wrote above (paragraph 3) stereotypes are an accommodation of bigotry.
I think you misunderstand me. I think that stereotyping is an accomodation of bigotry. Loving Barbra or Judy or Madonna or Britney is not an accomodation of bigotry; telling someone that they don't really like Barbra et al. but are just choosing "to assimilate and react to the oppression that produced and imposed the stereotype in the first place." There is self-stereotyping among gays, of course -- for example, a former boyfriend of mine was once asked by another gay man, "You're supposed to like Barbra Streisand if you're gay, aren't you?" That's as foolish as forcing oneself to like watching football games so as not to "fit the stereotype", based on stereotypes of straight men. I hope that's not what you're advocating, but it's what it sounds like.
Are you sure we're disagreeing? I think some behavior is learned, some is biologically based. Here is what I actually wrote:
"...stereotypes (like the bigotry that produces them) are learned."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you actually wrote; it's not very clear. Are you saying that non-stereotypical behavior, which seems to be gender-conformist, isn't learned, that only stereotypical behavior is learned? It sounds like you're accusing "stereotypical" gay people of false consciousness. If you are, then you're stereotyping them yourself. If not, I don't see your point.
re: The Promiscuous Reader
Well, in writing "stereotypes are an accommodation of bigotry" I'm saying two things:
1) People who impose stereotypes indulge and perpetuate (their learned) bigotry.
2) Objects of that stereotyping who accept and embrace those stereotypes (whether uncritically or defensively) are people who accommodate that bigotry and their own subjugation.
I make a distinction between sexual orientation (i.e. homosexual) and cultural identity (i.e. "Gay"). Therefore I do not equate homosexuality with Gayness in the same way I do not equate race with cultural specificity (i.e. "Black" does not equal "thug"; "Asian" does not equal "math genius"). Therefore, while homosexuality may be foundational to one's identity "Gay" (as a culturally learned set of behaviors) is not.
Gay identity has never been formed outside of oppression. Consequently much of it is a defensive reaction-formation to hostility and persecution. While that response has been necessary and empowering in past decades it is, nonetheless, an accommodation to homophobia. I'm not sure any of us know what "Gay" is outside that confining space. I think it is very important for us all to have a discussion about whether or not that is "false consciousness".
The only thing I'm "advocating" is the most difficult thing in the world: simply be yourself, not a persona constructed to accommodate or defend against stereotypes.
Long ago (when I had free time) I wrote a post for TNG (under my former screen name: Ben 43) that went into greater detail. You can read more here:
Approximate Living
http://www.thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html
There have been some fairly persuasive arguments made by writers like Daniel Harris (among others) that certain stereotypically "gay" behavior (a taste for high cultural pursuits, say, or a penchant for certain types of camp speech and humor) developed from an attempt by gays to be able to identify each other and to be able to defend themselves against homophobic attitudes in earlier decades.
It will be interesting to see, as society comes out of its ignorance about gay life and becomes more accepting, whether certain "gay" behaviors will shift over time.
Philip,
I'm not familiar with Daniel Harris, haven't read anything of his so thanks for the tip. I'll have to take a look.
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