Oh Netflix, Gay Doesn’t Equal Good
Clearlyhere likes decidedly middlebrow books and movies, is rapidly becoming obsessed with the election, and is an opera singer with grand aspirations. He also thanks the stars for BBC America and Captain Jack Harkness on Torchwood.
Identity politics has been talked about a lot in this election. Women were jazzed about Hilary Clinton being the first realistic woman nominee for president and commentators have been talking about the movement of Hilary Clinton supporters suddenly supporting Sarah Palin (who is actually running as Vice President with John McCain if anyone forgot.) She represents the Conservative Agenda and is the least woman-friendly politician McCain could hope to have while still getting a woman for the job. Why would women do this?
Have you seen the Gay movies out there?
A few years ago, after the success of the movie Eating Out, the producers decided to create a sequel, Eating Out 2: Sloppy Seconds. I saw the first movie in theaters with a large group of other gay men and I have to say it wasn’t (unfortunately) the worst gay film I saw that year. That is all I could say for the softcore underdeveloped piece of crap that it turned out to be. After checking out dozens of "Gay & Lesbian" films on Netflix (and suffering through the D.C. Gay Film Fest where I have yet to see a decent movie), I feel I won’t be checking out anymore till I am boyfriendless, gay friendless, and in a small town hours away from a big city for so long that I will do anything for gay culture.
The Gay films the kept me hoping to find something worth watching were the British films. Get Real and Beautiful Thing are two examples of well acted movies that don’t resort to softcore tactics to keep the viewer interested (Touch of Pink also good though I didn’t like it all that much.) Scrolling down the list of 4 star “Gay & Lesbian” movies on Netflix you get worse and worse quality films including the worst film I have ever seen, Regarding Billy, where someone decided to film a movie in their house and somehow managed to get it released on DVD. The average rating on this "film" was 3 stars. I gave A.I. with Haley Joel Osment 3 stars, Regarding Billy had acting worse than community theater productions, had no plot, and had the production values of a preschool’s pretending corner.
Who do I blame for my misfortune in renting this egregious film? Other gay men. People like my boss who likes it (whatever it may be play, television show, movie) if it is gay and likes it even more if there is nudity, full frontal if possible. After having lost too many hours trying to find the good gay movies amid the inflated gay ratings on Netflix, I have concluded that the 10 I have seen are about it. What does it say about us that we accept these poor imitations of entertainment and even rate it as good because we are so thirsty for gay theme programs? The miracle that we have shows like Queer as Folk and the soon-to-be-cancelled L Word does make me hopeful that my Netflix queue could some day have better gay-themed movies and television shows. Thank goodness for British imports.
I advise you not to be like those women switching from Hilary Clinton to Sarah Palin. If it is between Nothing and Gay Crap, choose nothing.
50 comments:
One summer I made it my goal to slog through as many gay films on Netflix as I could. Let me say that I stopped after forcing myself to sit through Homo Heights. If you truly want your mind to explode, watch that movie while completely chemically unaltered.
As a volunteer at Reel Affirmations, I have to say that while there are certainly some horrible films that get played there simply because they are gay, there have actually been a number of quite good ones over the years. Of course, that's obviously a subjective statement since unlike you, I did not like Touch of Pink; and while I love John Barrowman, I wouldn't hold Torchwood up as a paragon of quallity either ;-)
I've joked with friends -- but sadly it's true -- that the only good "gay" films are ones that were either based off another form of media first (play, book), or weren't produced in America. Mind you, that doesn't automatically make them good, but it does give them a chance.
(And I'm with Jack when it comes to Torchwood. Love John Barrowman, thought he was great on Doctor Who, but Torchwood... um... well, thank goodness show front-runner Chris Chibnall is now gone because now maybe it will have a chance of being a good show.)
respectfully disagree. you're just watching shitty movies. here's the list of the rest of movies i intended to watch for the new gay before i crapped out and gave up.
road warrior, heavenly creatures, all about my mother, c.r.a.z.y, my own private idaho/mala noche (it was going to be a gvs double feature), in and out, the living end, edward II, far from heaven/all that heaven allows (another double feature!), d.e.b.s, boys in the band (the mother of all gay movies), trick, l.i.e, entre nous, dracula's daughter, faster pussycat, sleepaway camp, satyricon, henry and june, threesome, the hanging garden.
i've seen most of those movies and at least a good third of them are great. and most of the one's that i did right up were pretty good-to-great too. granted a few aren't really capital G gay, but gay enough.
Adam, you've seen The Hanging Garden? I thought I was the only one. My sister called me Sweet William for years...
it's canadian. i had to see it. they have laws about this stuff up there.
@Zack, nope I've seen it too!
I saw Hanging Garden, too, but I found it thoroughly boring, a real snooze-fest. And this is coming from someone who finds some ultra-slow movies, like The Scent of Green Papaya, exhilarating.
Add Gods and Monsters to your list of great gay films.
I'd also like to talk about movies that either removed or altered their gay source content, like The Celluloid Closet, Get Real, and Raise the Red Lantern, but that's another whole post entirely.
So, funny. I feel the same. Until I move back to Arkansas, I will stay clear of the gay movies on netflix. Yes, some of the movies that were listed (plus Camp, which I love) are pretty good. But, wouldn't I be better off watching Pan's Labyrinth or Children of Men (my two current selections) than gambling on the gay movies?
oh yeah. gods and monsters is really good. celluloid closet was ok, but wasn't on my list because it's a documentary.
i just watched mishima: a life in four chapters, and i don't really know what to say about it. worth watching i guess. you've never seen anything like it.
i'd also add pretty much any bruce labruce movie (though especially skin flick because i have a thing about skinheads), rebel without a cause, spartacus, my beautiful laundrette (more skinheads), cabaret, withnail and i. all good. varying degrees of gay.
oh, oh, prick up your ears...i could keep going...
You should watch The Loved One, a film version of the short story by Evelyn Waugh. One of the best movies I have ever seen.
Random two favorite movies (both HBO productions, I think)...
If These Walls Could Talk 2
Angels in America
And what about Philadelphia? Does that qualify as "gay"? Does this need to spawn a thread about what constitutes gay/queer cinema?
A random list of my favorite gay films:
Totally F***ed Up; The Bubble; Torch Song Trilogy; Beautiful Thing; Come Undone; The Wedding Banquet; The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert; Happy Together; Yaji and Kita: The Midnight Pilgrims. I've not seen it all the way through, but what I saw of C.R.A.Z.Y. I loved. And honorable mention goes to Steel Magnolias.
I don't think all gay cinema is bad, but I do think "happy ending" movies in gay cinema do have a tendency to careen dangerously towards sappiness. Most, I find, are chick flicks, only with guys, but pretending to be edgy or innovative because they're about gay people. (And Adam, sorry, but "Trick" falls right into that pattern, in my opinion.)
If it's any consolation, some of the not-so-happy stuff is actually really good, if disturbing. Gregg Araki's "Mysterious Skin" is probably a decent example, here: good movie, but deals with child abuse and prostitution, among other things, so it's not much of an upper.
Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, and I agree that they come mostly out of Europe (and not just the UK: there's some foreign-language stuff that's solid, too).
As for Philadelphia: I think it should be disqualified, and not because it's not "gay enough," per se, but that the filmmakers seemed to deliberately avoid dealing with the main character's sexuality in any real way so as to make the film more palatable to mainstream audiences. He was essentially a celibate guy with a male roommate. I mean, it was 1993, I guess, but still...
Good post! In addition to a lot of the other great movies people already mentioned, here are some good ones I've seen through Netflix (a lot of which most of you have probably also seen): Tongues Untied, The Times of Harvey Milk, Paris is Burning, Bad Education, Shortbus (no one mentioned it yet?!), Brother to Brother, Small Town Gay Bar, The Aggressives. Also, two others I recommend that aren't really focused exclusively on gay issues, but deal with queer/sexuality/gender issues are Live Nude Girls Unite and Born in Flames.
oh, also, "But I'm a Cheerleader!". I wouldn't consider "Itty Bitty Titty Committee" good exactly, but I wouldn't not recommend it.
Good and interesting post, and I definitely agree with the author of this post, Get Real and Beautiful Thing have been my two favorite 5 star rated movies I've rented on Netflix.
Now, have any of you guys seen "Heights"? It's definitely a close number 3 and what about Mala Educación (Bad Education) a film by Almodovar or Before Night Falls with Javier Bardem in the lead role?
As a foreign guy, I lean more toward foreign cinema and these two are certainly masterpieces.
Check em out! ;)
My college roommates, who were gay long before I was, sat me down and forced me to watch "But I'm a Cheerleader" and "Kissing Jessica Stein," both of which I still like a lot.
The Bubble...it made me cry.
Obviously I'm the only one who feels that The Broken Hearts Club is a great movie. I watched it just as I was coming out into gay culture and it painted for me a picture that I could have a normal life that included gay friends and close connections with new "family" of people who would care about me.
Plus, it was sweet and pretty funny. And Zack Braff was particularly crush-worthy as Benji.
It was funny, since they kept comparing themselves to the women of Steel Magnolias, which some commenter above counted as a gay movie.
Oh, and what about Bound?
yeah, pretty much any almodovar is worth checking out. and before night falls was good (johnny depp in drag!). i've professed my love of bound on the new gay at an earlier date. but i'm surprised no one brought up swoon yet. it was kind of great even though it is after heavenly creatures in the list of crazed gay killers movies that i love.
i thought of doing another double feature (i was so ambitious) including broken hearts club and in and out, holding them up as examples of just what is so wrong with so many gay movies. philadelphia might deserve mention, but i think the other two are much more egregious offenders. broken hearts club especially just playedlike a total jerk-off for everyone involved. i just can't watch it without picturing the self-satisfied screen writer who clearly thinks he and his friends are so fascinating that i'd want to sit through 90 minutes of their hijinx. and in and out is such a castrated sub-urban fantasy. ugh. it makes me angry to think about. (no offense michael)
other gay movies i hate: bent, trick, johns, billy's hollywood screen kiss, any of those gay short film collections...again i could go on
Bent is fantastic -- well, the play is, anyway. The movie just isn't that well-acted. It's really more meant as a stage play.
Speaking of movies that were stage plays, as much as I like /Get Real, the play that it's based on, What's Wrong with Angry? is even better.
A gay romantic comedy that I was surprised that I liked was Mambo Italiano. While they are docs, I would recommence Paris is Burning and Tongues United. Also, Before Night Falls is very good. Overall, I do feel that gay movies are awful just like I feel are black oriented films. I think the film industry is not very interested in these sorts of films, because they do not see them appealing to a mass market. When black or gay films (insert other films for minority groups) are made, I think the feeling is that the target population will run to them, because its all they have. Even when most of it is crap.
A gay romantic comedy that I was surprised that I liked was Mambo Italiano. While they are docs, I would recommence Paris is Burning and Tongues United. Also, Before Night Falls is very good. Overall, I do feel that gay movies are awful just like I feel are black oriented films. I think the film industry is not very interested in these sorts of films, because they do not see them appealing to a mass market. When black or gay films (insert other films for minority groups) are made, I think the feeling is that the target population will run to them, because its all they have. Even when most of it is crap.
The reason crap movies like Eating Out get made is that there's a market for them. The homo festivals love them and market the hell out of them because they attract suburban gay men with money to fill seats and donate to the festivals.
Notice how at those festivals, the movies that are advertised with pictures of shirtless young boys always attract long lines of, mostly, older men, while the other films, which might be very good, don't get much of an audience. The same forces are behind why some movies get distribution deals and other don't. It's demographics.
What I don't understand is why those guys will sit through an awful movie just to see a few minutes of nudity. Wouldn't it be more efficient to rent porn?
All these movies are good but way too recent. There was life before 2003.
Gregg Araki's The Living End (1992) is awesome. Parting Glances (1986) and Grief (1993) were also very good. I'd also add What's Cooking (2003) by Gurinder Chadha (known for directing Bend it Like Beckham). I agree with Michael, The Broken Hearts Club was pretty good.
re: Steven
Not all suburban gay men are old, rich and desperate. Would you argue all urban gay men are young, poor and stupid? Doubt it.
Oh, and let's not forget "Fire". Any move that causes riots in the streets in India is tops on my list.
"Fire" is awesome, though I think "Water" is the best of the three. Deepa Mehta is one of my favorite directors.
I've been watching every gay movie I can find on Netflix too. Most are crap. But here's some that I thought were pretty good.
1. Wilby Wonderful. Charming.
2. East Side Story. Had it's moments.
3. Gone but not forgotten. Yeah, low budget, but an interesting story line.
4. Boy Culture. Very nice production.
5. The Donald Strachey mysteries. I think they are getting better and I like how they aren't about BEING gay, but just have gay characters.
6. The Dying Gaul. This is the best of the bunch. Amazing movie. The passion shown by the two leads was awesome.
7. Cut Sleeve Boys. Fun movie, and great to see Asians as the lead for a change.
Lastly, have you been watching movies on HereTV!. Although the quality isn't always there. (mostly not there), it is fun that Gay movies are moving beyond about being gay and into just fun movies that have gay characters. I think this is an interesting breakthrough. I always wanted to see a big budget movie like "Indiana Jones" or "Titanic" or "Jaws" where the lead is gay. I think HereTV is working towards that goal.
Hey acoolerclimate
Boy Culture! I read the book and couldn't stand the tripe. If it contains a male hustler, I am not interested.
Anonymous sez:
re: Steven
Not all suburban gay men are old, rich and desperate. Would you argue all urban gay men are young, poor and stupid? Doubt it.
Anonymous, If you're gonna argue with me, at least argue with something I actually said. C'mon.
Did anybody mention the film, High Art? One of my favorites. Patricia Clarkson as a German lesbian junkie.
How about Maurice? I liked that one.
Oooh.. one of my favorite topics - the good and the bad of gay cinema.
I work for Reel Affirmations and I can tell you that this is a constant topic of conversation around here. Sad to say, I don't think that gay cinema has lived up to the promise of the New Queer Cinema of the 70s/80s, but I think that there may be tiny steps being taken in the right direction. For every Eating Out, there are some true gems out there.
The films that are most exciting to me right now are the trans films... it seems like that's the new frontier in queer storytelling.
Part of the reason for this, to me, is that because we, as the gay community, are not facing any huge life or death struggles right now.
AIDS is still with us, but we're ignoring it the best.
There's anti-gay violence, but the elected officials are all over it.. promising us... something.
It's primarily out of conflict that come these great stories, and we're largely without conflict right now. We're in coasting mode... enough laws to ostensibly make us feel safe, just enough job protection to keep us sated and clothed, and we can fly to Ca. to get hitched if we want.
I re-watched Dog Day Afternoon a month or so ago, and all I could think about was how close in time it was to Stonewall and the anger that was bubbling up in the gay community.
Having said all that, I don't think that gay cinema should be held to any higher standard than non-queer cinema. There are some folks who laugh hysterically at Eatinig Out, but would fall asleep at Maurice.
It's all about accepting our diversity in tastes and places in life. At 20, a different type of film appeals to me than at 30 or even 40.
Oooh.. one of my favorite topics - the good and the bad of gay cinema.
I work for Reel Affirmations and I can tell you that this is a constant topic of conversation around here. Sad to say, I don't think that gay cinema has lived up to the promise of the New Queer Cinema of the 70s/80s, but I think that there may be tiny steps being taken in the right direction. For every Eating Out, there are some true gems out there.
The films that are most exciting to me right now are the trans films... it seems like that's the new frontier in queer storytelling.
The trans community seems to be just coming into its own, and it's a beautiful thing to see.
Part of the reason for this disconnet between really great cinema and mediocre fare, to me, is that because we, as the gay community, are not facing any huge life or death struggles right now.
AIDS is still with us, but we're ignoring it the best we can.
There's anti-gay violence, but the elected officials are all over it.. promising us... something.
It's primarily out of conflict that come these great stories, and we're largely without conflict right now. We're in coasting mode, or we're busy creating solutions ... enough laws to ostensibly make us feel safe, just enough job protection to keep us sated and clothed, and we can fly to Ca. to get hitched if we want.
I re-watched Dog Day Afternoon a month or so ago, and all I could think about was how close in time it was to Stonewall and the anger that was bubbling up in the gay community.
Having said all that, I don't think that gay cinema should be held to any higher standard than non-queer cinema. There are some folks who laugh hysterically at Eatinig Out, but would fall asleep at Maurice.
It's all about accepting our diversity in tastes and places in life. At 20, a different type of film appeals to me than at 30 or even 40.
OMG, I forgot! One of my all-time favorite gay films, and one that's relatively upbeat: The Adventures of Felix. Excellent!
Try the short films compilations. I always find the shorts programs are the best thing at Reel Affirmation. I remember in particular "Crush", and "Night Swim" a few years ago. The problem is finding them afterward. Sometimes you get them on "Boy Shorts" compilations, or "Boy Crush". Like the blog item that Philip did about gay books, it's usually a provocative DVD cover, and "Boy ...." on the title, so they are easy to confuse with softcore porn.
@ landoftrolls: I like your movie choices :-)
@ gmo: I love 'Heights'. I even bought the soundtrack. Glenn Close is amazing. I would have loved to see her Lady Macbeth.
I have 3 further recommendations:
'Plata Quemada' ('Burnt Money' was the English title), from Argentina.
'Km. 0' ('Kilometer Zero' in reference to the central point in Madrid), from Spain.
'No Se Lo Digas a Nadie' (Don't Tell Anyone), from Peru (yay, Peru!)
Those three movies played the year Reel Affirmation focused on Spanish-language films.
@Daniel - thank you! And don't forget the wonderful short film from Spain - Doors Cut Down.
@ Daniel
I always find that the shorts screenings are the best thing at Reel Affirmations too. Any advice on how to get them / look out for them, have you been lucky?
I liked very much Men's Night Out, Men's shorts last year, especially: Groucho, Daddy's Boy (very funny!) and the Caress of the Creature..
Your movie recommendations sound very interesting, "Don't Tell Anyone", is an adaptation from a book by Jaime Bayly, a great Peruvian writer..I think that the book was better though...
I'll add "Km. 0" and "Plata Quemada" to my Netflix...
re: Steven
Anonymous, If you're gonna argue with me, at least argue with something I actually said. C'mon.
OK. Some things you actually said...
1) You said:
"The homo festivals ...attract suburban gay men with money to fill seats and donate to the festivals."
Translation:
suburban gay men have a lot disposable income and are rich enough to support film festivals.
2) You said:
"...the movies that are advertised with pictures of shirtless young boys always attract long lines of, mostly, older men..."
Translation:
suburban gay men are old (and desperate).
3) You said:
"What I don't understand is why those guys will sit through an awful movie just to see a few minutes of nudity. Wouldn't it be more efficient to rent porn?"
Translation:
suburban gay men are desperate.
Don't say something and then deny you said it. You just end up looking stupid.
And for the record a lot of suburban gay men are over the fucking rainbow of your urban queer fantasy. Start honestly applying that diversity you so aggresively evangelize.
anonymous, Are you really that bad at reading comprehension, or are you just ornery?
Recently, on one of the posts here, someone said TNG should eliminate anonymous posting, and after reading the above I have to agree. Some blathering "anonymous" out there is attempting to read into Steven's comments his own interpretation. Hey, Mr. (or Ms.) anonymous, your interpretation of Steven's comments don't necessarily reflect what he meant, but they do give us a peak into your own internalized cacá.
TNG, seriously, consider eliminating anonymous posting, so folks will take responsibility for what they write here.
I love you, landoftrolls.
re: Landoftrolls
I clearly understood what Steven wrote. It is transparent. Debating his motivation is ancillary, not to mention irrelevant.
The point: his actual words say suburban gay men are old, rich and desperate. That is offensive, ageist and typical of the ignorance and disrespect in most young gay men.
Above I used quotes to prove my point. I challenge either you or Steven to go back and find quotes that prove me wrong, that prove what he wrote does not say (or imply) suburban gay men are old, rich and desperate.
Stop projecting. It is not anonymous posting but your double standard whining that gives us a "peak into your own internalized cacá."
Anonymous, I read your interpretation of Steve's comments. I firmly disagree with you. I read Steve's comments, and I do not believe that is what he said. Rather, I see you finding offense where none was intended. In my observation, people harboring resentment will find offense whether any was intended or not. And by the way, if you had bothered to look at Steve's profile, you'd see he's not exactly young (by gay standards). And I am the same age as he. I don't think either of us are hating on the older gays, just on their bad tastes in film, and the inevitable consequences of their outsized buying power.
re: landoftrolls
I do not believe that is what he said. Rather, I see you finding offense where none was intended.
1) So all you can counter with is your personal opinion? If you are going to debate an issue you'll need something stronger than that, like the proof in Steven's actual writing I requested.
2) People with weak arguments without facts and based on personal opinion often resort to personal attack. I assure you pointing out the bigotry of others has nothing to do with "harboring resentment". I guess gay men angered by hate crimes are just "harboring resentment"? Steven sounds like he is harboring (to use your words) a great deal of personal resentment towards other gay men. What about the "outsized buying power" of (the vilified rich suburban) gay men who donate their time and money to HIV/AIDS research, gay youth groups and gay rights politics? For example David Geffen funded many early ACT UP New York actions. But I guess he's really just nothing more than a stupid old faggot with bad taste and a lot of money.
The problem with what Steven wrote stands. Again, regardless of his motivation, age, profile or personal feeling the words are his record. It is up to Steven to retract, clarify or reaffirm what he wrote. It is not your place to lodge personal attacks in his defense to make yourself feel better.
Bad taste in film is just as evident at E Street Cinema as it is at Bethesda Row.
There is a lot of bad taste throughout gay culture. Stop using class resentment to mask the real problem: complacency, self-loathing and insecurity among most gay men, regardless of age or place of residence.
Dissent is valid. Good luck trying to silence others.
Anonymous, you are of course free to believe and state whatever you want. It would be a waste of space to repeat what Steven wrote and what you wrote in response when it is all above. Yes, I do have an opinion. Your "translation" of Steve's words are your opinion, too, and nothing other than your opinion. Steve himself has denied that your "translations" reflect his intended meaning. But you chose to maintain your opinion, and your anger, in the face of his denials. That of course you are also free to do, and to state as much and as forcefully as the maintainers of TNG blog allow. I continue to disagree with your "translations", and since your translations were based on such an angry reaction, I concluded they come from a place of resentment. I suppose you believe that a certain class of gays are picked on, and since you are defending them so strongly, I think you might be one of them. You may or may not be correct in that belief - I'm not suburban so I cannot tell. May I humbly suggest that if this is a real issue with you, you can submit a post to The New Gay - their submission guidelines are posted. We've strayed far from the original intent of the blog post, and gotten ourselves into a flame war of suburbs versus city. I suspect we will just have to agree to disagree.
I can't believe I'm actually arguing with some anonymous crackpot commenter on a blog, but I think the original topic of discussion is important.
The tastes of a subset of older suburban gay men who patronize gay/lesbian film festivals have a big effect on the selection of films that are programmed in the festivals and on the way those films are marketed. I don't know what could possibly be controversial about that.
Anonymous: your "translations" of my sentences don't stand up to the most basic test of logic. Stop arguing with what you think I mean, and take a look at what I actually said. You obviously have a bone to pick, but it's not with me.
re: Steven & landoftrolls
"I can't believe I'm actually arguing with some anonymous crackpot commenter on a blog..."
Again, people with weak arguments, without facts and based on personal opinion often resort to personal attack. Hurl all the insults you want if it makes you feel better. Unfortunately it only makes you less credible.
Again, your personal opinions mean nothing except to you. What evidence do you have that proves older suburban gay men "have a big effect" (again, vague terminology - define "big", define "effect") on 1) the content of gay film festivals, and 2)the marketing of gay films?
To my mind what you originally said, Steven, is suburban gay men are old and rich and desperate, and fund gay film festivals. Why don't you go back and read it?
Whining that TNG censor those who disagree with you is no way to gain credibility. Self-righteous vindictive reactions like yours are precisely why anonymous commentary is necessary.
While you are so busy proving me wrong and silencing dissent I am merely substantiating what I wrote.
landoftrolls: if you are so concerned we've "strayed far from the original intent of the blog post" then simply drop it. Take your own advice and simply "agree to disagree".
This horse is dead. This horse has been beaten into ground so thoroughly it does not like a horse anymore. It is a stain of a horse. Just let it go.
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